San Angelo's Civil War

SAN ANGELO, TX — This video story was about 6 weeks in the making. It covers much ground. For the beginning of this piece, we wanted to gather every argument made by a local citizen in public for renaming Robert E. Lee Middle School. Unfortunately, the man who initiated the original petition to remove the name on change.org, Jessie Ramon, refused to go on camera to argue his case. We captured his presentation to the San Angelo ISD Board of Trustees.

Since the proposal is for changing the name of a middle school with 71 years of history — and graduates — we felt the issue needed more than the cursory glance. We wanted as many authoritative, and if able, local voices as we could.

The piece begins with the arguments for those who want the school name changed, and their reasoning: Lee led the fight to keep slavery during the Civil War and his image is oppressive to Blacks and other minorities.

We wanted to know why did a San Angelo ISD Board of Trustees of the late 1940s, when the school was constructed, name it Robert E. Lee Junior High. We received answers.

We asked Lt. Col. Allen West, a Black man and culture warrior for the right, what he thought of the push to take down Confederate monuments and about places like schools named after Robert E. Lee. There are many schools named after Confederate heroes remaining in Texas. He gave us some points to ponder.

We also explore other public places in the Concho Valley named for Confederate Civil War heroes. The irony of the entire debate over the name of Lee Middle School is that should San Angelo ISD change the name, many parents will continue to drive down Beauregard Avenue to get to the school. Beauregard Avenue, that traces the main dividing line between north and south San Angelo, was named after one of Lee’s immediate subordinates, Confederate General P. G. T. Beauregard. Tom Green County is named after Confederate General Thomas Green. There is also Confederate Major Ben Ficklin. Ben Ficklin is the name of a road that leads to a stagecoach station location that was the original county seat of the county, then known as the town of Ben Ficklin.

After we finished the initial video production we discovered a Confederate namesake we overlooked. San Angelo ISD’s Reagan Elementary School is named after John Henninger Reagan, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. He served in the cabinet of Confederate States President Jefferson Davis as Postmaster General.

No one is protesting Reagan Elementary School’s name because very few know who the Confederate Postmaster named Reagan was.

The San Angelo ISD Board of Trustees has organized a three-month timeframe for debating Robert E. Lee’s name on the middle school. Two virtual town halls or forums are planned to gather citizen input. The superintendent announced that a polling consultant will be hired to measure community support. The decision to rename or keep the name will happen in October. We asked who the polling consultant was twice, the San Angelo ISD hasn’t answered.

How do you feel about Robert E. Lee Middle School? 

Click here to vote to change the name.

Click here to vote to keep the name.

The video is above on this page. Click the arrow to watch it.

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Thoroughly enjoyed it. As for Georgia native and former Florida congressman and candidate for Texas GOP chair, fix Georgia or Florida before coming here to start messing with Texas. He blames LBJ for policies to level the playing field in a society refusing to play by those rules. Then blames the "mob" for living in poverty. Disgraceful. And this coming from a disgraced Army officer.

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Don't be afraid of change, you dinosaurs. Leaving the name would be unpatriotic. We dont need the name, it's an icon of treason, suppression and cowards. Confederacy does not equal heritage, its history of people wanting to keep their right to have slaves. If you think it is anything different then you are just as unpatriotic as they were.

Comment

There's nothing more American than Dixie. Sweet potato pie? Maybe, but no. The loyal (to the American people and vision) opposition presented by the South has been remembered as part of our collective heritage by putting these ancestral names onto the institutions of our republic.

We invite those with courage and a sense of honor to leave behind their petty grudges and join us in a bright future connected to our shared Southern heritage. Don't be the dodo that clung to outdated bigotry against the South.

#HeritageForTheFuture #LetItGoMoveForward

Brit S, Sat, 07/11/2020 - 10:59
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Logan, you offend me, go legally change your name... but don't trust the system, with all that systematic racism built in, they might not let you change it. Ok, joking but do you get my point?

If the system has racism coded right into it, how the hell you hope to use that system to produce change? The fact that you guys are signing a petition to change what you think is racial and offensive by using this system, defeats the the arguement that said system has racism built right into it... It's about your willingness and intent to use the system, not about the fact that the system is just there. If you are intent upon and willing to use the system that you try to convince us is "systematically racist", doesn't that scream self defeating, if your argument is true?

Help me as I'm trying to understand your argument. Here's what I observe in your assessment and presentation of the facts.

1. Circular Reasoning: If your side wins the vote, you disprove without a shadow of a doubt your argument for systemic racism, if their side wins, you simply continue to argue your point and blame the built in racism, win-win argument for Logie.

2. Hasty Generalization: Without proving how any harm has come by remembering figures who existed in our history, you argue this is racist. Without pointing to any evidence, besides more circular reasoning arguments posted by white people on Tik Tok, you tell us that the system that you believe in enough to formally participate in is systematically oppressing non whites.

None of the arguments I have ever heard for systemic racism has had even one particle of truth to that arguments end. Pointing to an individual or some individuals who are racist doesn't make the magnitude of your claim real.

Comment

Theories about systemic racism are ultimately too inconsistent to be considered valid. Systemic racism doesn't account for the incredible success some minority groups experience now, and have experienced in the past, in relation to the rest of the population.

Accepting systemic racism as real would ultimately lead one into absurdities that would result in unfounded accusations against successful minority groups with attendant conspiracy theories in tow. Explaining the success of these groups via inborn advantages, however, nullifies the premises on which theories of systemic racism are built and leads to the conclusion that people in each respective ethnic and racial group have largely already fallen into their own, proper level of accomplishment and power through their inborn natures. There can be no exceptions to either rule.

If results continue to vary once compensating policies are made to redistribute opportunity equally, then we have to accept that members of a given group will generally respond differently to opportunities given than do individuals of another group. We've already made efforts to redistribute opportunity, but keep seeing different, but not altogether negative or insignificant, results.

Comment

Change is fundamental in a civilized society, but change needs justified rational reasoning. Changing a school or building’s name because someone doesn’t like it, it not logical. Nearly every person in America would agree that slavery was wrong, but changing names because this is modern day America makes zero sense. No one but radical racist groups, worship Confederates. Changing a name just because it was a Confederate supporter diminishes their significance in history. When they become diminished, we forget why they were part of our history, both good & bad. Having something named after southern generals IS part of our history that we must NEVER forget!

Comment

I will repeat some of what I've said in the past. (1) American can neither pander to nor appease any specific group as a whole. The justice system works to represent individuals. If America as an entity caved in to a group specifically, there would be no end to calls for justice and reparations, to backlash and whiplash. (2) Ever individual must deal emotionally and psychologically with their own grief and anger. To thrust it upon the unknowing, the unwilling, or the uncaring is defeatist and invites aggression. (3) History is just that...a story, sometimes more fiction that fact, of how a situation came to be. There is no changing it; there is only the possibility of learning from it for everyone. (4.) What is interesting is who is not speaking. For every oppressed or oppressed-feeling person, there is another person who rose above their given situation. "Attitude determines altitude." (5) The names, the monuments, the history of a defeated cause changed the course of life for generations; opportunities were created but not equally. Today there is a great inequity in whose voice gets to be heard and in who is willing to resort to violence to make a point. There are always multiples perspectives to every situation, but when one voice overrides all others and fear of personal expression is generated, then there is inequity. (6) In the case of San Angelo, why is this even important? San Angelo is no different from hundreds of other towns with their Confederate names and the names of well known presidents and military leaders. What about Grierson? What about Madison ? It is hard to find anyone from the Civil War Era who does not have a skeleton in their closet. Shall we just erase them, pretend they were nonexistent? It's time for complainants to pull their socks up, act mature, and move on.

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"Attitude determines altitude."

I dunno, Liz. Sounds like something a terrorist would say.

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While the piece itself was well done and presented the sides of the argument relatively well, the very discourse is ultimately trivial at best. Monuments and name-sakes are for the dead, not the living. No one in history who has their name attached to stadiums, theaters, academic buildings, highways, bridges, even diseases would be found faultless according to today’s “woke” society. But if “they” truly believed in their guiding principle of moral relativism, then shouldn’t everyone (past or present) get a free pass for merely following their own personal truth? Willfully blind they fail to see the their own hypocrisy. The ramifications of attempting to erase history in whatever form serves no one but those few who desire to assert control over the many; there is no end. Blaming politicians too is wasted breath. Politicians are nothing more than flawed human beings who manipulate, often deviously, to gain advancement for themself. We need less politicians and more true statesman. The perversion is confirmed and complete; the “managed news” has become government policy. The people no longer get “news” but agitation propaganda, progressively moving from distortion to outright lying.

Look around...as the welfare state collapses, we see the emergence of a brute conflict between those who desire order and those who don’t. But we would do well not to be distracted by manufactured crises. Crisis is a means of governing. We find ourselves in a world that seems to hold together only through the infinite management of its own collapse. Freedom is no longer a name scrawled on walls, for today it is always followed by the word “security”. This issue is perpetuated by nothing more than the false pretense that we have a right to demand security from being offended.

Comment

What part of the word pardoned do these people not understand? Keep on taking it to the extreme, Sam Houston, a slave owner, was a traitor since he led an army in revolt against Mexico, Stephen Austin was was a slavery sympathizer and traitor to Mexico. George Washington led a rebel army against England. And the list goes on. My great grandfather fought with MS infantry at Gettysburg and he was no traitor or slave owner. Most were loyal to their home states. If living in the south is so offensive, why don't you pack up and try Minneapolis for a change?

Comment

If you don't like living in the south because change is coming, maybe you should....Stay right here. Because I would never tell someone to move because they advocate for change, that would be wrong. America is ever evolving into what it needs to be to meet the people's needs of the current time, it is as simple as that.

BTW, pardoned means they admitted guilt.

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Pendleton Murrah enjoyed the south so much he went further, to Monterrey... Mexico. He fled the pardon.

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'Lee led the fight to keep slavery during the Civil War and his image is oppressive to Blacks and other minorities.'

Might want to rephrase this. It's pretty well established that when you include undocumented immigrants, it's just enough for non-hispanic whites to qualify as minorities in San Angelo.

Comment

They were revisionists also and removed a lot of history, then removed a lot of lives.
It never ends until the system is overthrown for an extremely oppressive one.
Anybody see that coming?

Comment

Anyone who fights or fought against the United States of America is a traitor and an enemy to the same, period. Over 100,000 southern unionists fought to preserve the union. Choices were made. Treachery or patriotism.

Sam Houston was a staunch Unionist. He fought hard to keep Texas in the union and was shunned for it. Yes, he owned slaves from time to time. That's history, cannot be changed. Did he fight to preserve slavery, no. Did he vote to stop the spread of it, yes.

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And yet, 800 years later, the Irish have yet to receive due compensation for almost a millennium of abuse.

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Touché. History matters. All of it, not just certain parts of it. Ireland became the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white. But that fact isn’t politically expedient nor does it afford the self-righteous an audience to whom they can virtue signal their “moral superiority”.

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... Americans ... and especially alot of people... let's see... how did you say it...
... oh yeah ... not word for word how you put it but "people here" treat even the Irish poorly or give an 18 year old youngman a "rough" time because his name sounded "Irish"! Well, since you enjoy using the internet to look up information... search up this name ...
Robert William Gary Moore ... most commonly known as just "Gary Moore"
... he's a Northern Irish Musician that was very adored by a plethora of American musicians and fans! You could email him and ask him if he was ever treated differently and rough by the American fans and musicians here in America. I said you could send him an email and ask him but that's not possible because he passed away years ago due to a severe medical condition.

I just don't get it? For some reason you and a few others in the rant section think that everyone or anyone from this area or Texas are racist against anyone that was not born here in America. My thoughts are ... you like the misery of drama.You and a few others on here seem to have an agenda to "Stir the S_ _ t Pot" and keep people stirred up. Anyway... if you have never heard of this awesome musician "Gary Moore " from Northern Ireland.... here is just one of the amazing songs he performed.

https://youtu.be/4O_YMLDvvnw

Enjoy listening to this song and really listen to how talented this man was ... especially his awesome Guitar skills! I hope you do ... and maybe you can realize that just because a person is Irish that most people here in this area are not racist. Have yourself a good Sunday!

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Ol' King James did not have a merry old soul. One simply cannot sit around and create this stuff. Hilarious.

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You don't like it, get off your arse and take me out, and in the meantime, I'll plant mine wheresoever I wish and spout what I like!

#JusticeForMalachi

(And expect a new cathartic revelation every time I've got a "load" to drop.)

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Somebody has emersed themselves in the communion wine on this warm Sunday afternoon.

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And I'm holier than thou, to boot.

https://youtu.be/2H5uWRjFsGc

Meanwhile, anti-Celtic sentiment is still alive and shaping the world as we know it. Just look at Old Salt's anti-Celtic bigotry. He'd take a shot at John Kennedy himself if he could.

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... may be drunk and you may be a criminal but that's not for anyone to say if they do not know you. You said it ... and I don't see any evidence of anyone else suggesting that. Personally... I feel you've been partaking in your previously admitted recreational activities of play with different types of glues. I would suggest opening a window and turn up the ceiling fan to help exhaust some of the fumes from those glues!

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... may be drunk and you may be a criminal but that's not for anyone to say if they do not know you. You said it ... and I don't see any evidence of anyone else suggesting that. Personally... I feel you've been partaking in your previously admitted recreational activities of play with different types of glues. I would suggest opening a window and turn up the ceiling fan to help exhaust some of the fumes from those glues!

Z Z, Sun, 07/12/2020 - 13:50
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I am mostly into these catchy lyrics. Like how to start off a song and which key we are supposed to be in.

So, the song starts out

Me and homer jones, and big John tally, was shooting dice back in the alley. 7 come eleven

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0rdF7o08KXw

Z Z, Sun, 07/12/2020 - 16:12
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Not good at arguing because my nature is just that way. I like to discuss and debate things though. And that is often why that I lose.

Probably lost 3 debates already this morning and we are only getting warmed up.. shhhh.. she is standing right over there dude

I call her little red

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fXKVmKEdoxg

YoBoe, Sun, 07/12/2020 - 18:51
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The first thought that come to my mind is why was the name of Robert E. Lee chosen in the first place? There SHOULD be a record(s) within the school or SAISD stating such, meeting minutes or something. I am sure that a group of people were selected to come up with a name and they had to justify it. Let’s start there and see what they got wrong and what we have learned since. Also, what (if any) history is taught to the student of RLJH/SAISD? I was raised in Pennsylvania, steeped in history and we learned a great deal about the events and areas around us, took many field trips also, Gettysburg and Independence Hall were regular stops, plus the Smithsonian in DC along with many, many others, mostly of more local importance to history (more to follow).

If the name of Lee is changed, that will be the first domino to fall, any more will be easier to topple. We will also need to relook at many more schools to ensure that the names are “proper” Austin, Bowie, Lamar, Fannin, hmm, who are these people, and why was the school named after them. Are there any plaques or other markers telling the story or reason behind the name on the school? If not, maybe there should be.

Next, as Manny pointed out Thomas Green, Ben Ficklin, P. G. T. Beauregard, John Henninger Reagan, all served the C.S.A. and based on the argument of changing Lee, these all should be changed as well. I wonder how hard and expensive it is to change the name of a county?

This will easily be followed by discussion concerning Fort Concho (and Chadbourne and the rest of the Frontier Forts) all of which housed soldier who killed native American and aided the government in stealing their land. What shall we do about this injustice? Tear down the sites, turn them into grassy parks for people to enjoy? Pasture land for the ones more in the open plains? Oh, we can sell the land to help offset the costs of the name changes!

Who is going to pay for all the costs associated with all this renaming? Us, the taxpayer, that is who.

Simple solution, make the first portion of History every year (and maybe Civics if it is still taught) focused on the people of significance to San Angelo and Texas. I will admit I do not know what is taught in schools today, but what I hear folks talk about it doesn’t sound too good. Have a small area in each building discuss the individual. Heck why not even make it a contest for the students to see how creative or informative they can be. One thing I learned in my college studies, the more involved the student the more they learn, the less involved the less they learn and that is multiplied when learning is online.

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"Ain't got time for bullshit. When people show you who they are, believe them".

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Opportunity exists! In fact there are countless examples of those who have achieved great success regardless of their lot in life. Of course it’s much easier to just blame others. Intentions aside, what LBJ’s policies did was create a dependent society...and until those on the Left come to terms with that the situation will only worsen.

Z Z, Mon, 07/13/2020 - 02:38
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That we live. So now I get to go through my second divorce, so I wasn’t planning on that to happen

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